Levels of taint, exposure, cummulative effects - discussion

Just to get the thread started, will add my thoughts in due time. Please, everyone, express your opinions.

So... I think the reason that the taint is included in our systems books but left vague is to represent that it should be left to the individual chronical. Be that is it is I hope everyone knows that we are trying to play the game as intended. The lack of a clear system definition does make it slightly problematic though. As that is the case, and the case with all things in our game, we have to find what works for us.

I personally believe that the wyrm's taint can be contracted in many ways but that the system should bottleneck as the Garou moves closer to the spiral. For instance, we've played a number of times that simply being in the presence of the minions of the wyrm confers a level of taint. That is fine for a Garou that is pure or minorly tainted, but for those that are extremely tainted it doesn't make much sense that someone who is thinking about killing puppies would be pushed over the edge for a fomori walking past.

On the other hand, I really don't want to overcomplicate a system and as such discourage players, so I am hoping that I can get inputs and use them to devise a system that works for us.

A couple cut and pastes regarding rites in general and the rite of cleansing in particular to explain why I feel the "need" for it is something people overestimate. Also that we make it too expensive to perform. First on Rites of Accord and the rite of cleansing in general.

Rites of Accord
These rites restore Garou or a place to harmony and balance with Gaia. They
purify and renew their subjects in a symbolic rebirth.
The ritemaster must possess a talen, fetish or some piece of Gaia never touched
either by minions of the Wyrm or by human hands. Make a Static Social Challenge
against seven Traits unless otherwise stated.


Rite of Cleansing: This rite purifies a person, place or object so that it can be used without fear of Wyrm-taint. The most common form of the rite requires the ritemaster to inscribe a circle on the earth around the target, walking counterclockwise while holding a smoldering branch or torch, then to use a branch (preferably willow or birch) dipped in pure water or snow to sprinkle the target. The other participants produce eerie howls to intimidate and frighten away the tainting force.
This rite works best at dawn but can be performed at any time. This rite can affect more than one target at a time, at a cost of one Gnosis Trait for each target beyond the first. The difficulty varies based on the level of taint, from four Traits for minor contamination from weak Wyrm servants up to nine Traits or more for extensive warping in the hands of powerful minions. Reduce the difficulty total by one Trait when performing the rite at dawn. This rite doesn’t heal wounds and other damage, and does not remove the soul-deep corruption common to fomori, vampires, Black Spiral Dancers and the like.




Now a bit on rites in general...
Ritemasters lead Garou in the rites. These are often grand ceremonies involving extensive preparation and socializing; almost all rites require at least three participants apart from those specifically designed for individuals. Tradition-minded septs frown on performing rites away from the caem and group. The rite takes a minimum of 10 minutes for Basic Rites, 30 minutes for Intermediate Rites and one hour for Advanced Rites. Minor rates take two to five minutes. In almost all cases, the celebrants must use trinkets or special materials, and rites always require concentration and skill. The ritemaster bears responsibility for seeing that everyone does their part in the rite. The specific challenges appear in the description for each rite. In general, every five participants beyond the minimum required give the ritemaster a +1 Trait bonus on relevant challenges.


Yeah 10 minutes every time someone does the rite. Add to that that per our renown policy you could get enough temporary wisdom for a permanent wisdom renown every two times you do the rite "Purifying a Wyrm-tainted object, person or place 6" and you'll see why I think its necessity is overstated.

First, I apologize that it is not included in the rules clarification topic but yes, we are aware that we've deviated from the cost of the rite in the book. We've done this so there will be some bite behind the taint and not an easy fix of cleansing the entire Sept with just a pair or trio of Garou. I had thought this was known amongst the players but again, mea culpa, will update accordingly.

As for the aspect of the renown, dosn't it make more sense that the cleansing should be costly for the ritemaster and the reward fitting? Sure I see your logic that cleaning the entire sept would justify several dots of perm wisdom but also remember that temporary renown is only justification for a chop against perm renown, nevertheless I do think you're right and that we should revisit just how much renown cleansing gives.

As for when and how rites are done, As you know my roleplaying experience in general is not as extensive as some of our players and this is why I like to dialog a lot of the rulings the ST's make. As for the number of garou and formality of rites, the Hounds just don't have the players for it to work as per the books mechanics. Unless the ST's are going to make the warders show up and in that case then everything, always, becomes easier for the fact, else I see potential for players to call foul or favoritism and that presents a problematic situation as well. To be honest I kinda get the impression that you may be slightly confusing rites with the rites performed during a moot, which admittedly we don't really do because of the nature of our game and availabilities of players.

I don't want to put words in your mouth but it seems to me that maybe you're of the opinion that we should just do away with trying to develop taint mechanics altogether and just not worry about it, which is a valid opinion and honestly one I disagree with but it does tell me that it's nearing time for the poll on whether or not to throw out the taint mechanics.

I disagree with what causes taint. Killing wyrm beasts...fighting the wyrm...that causes taint roughly equivalent of eating at McDonalds or something
Frenzy, Falling to thrall of the wyrm, Doing deliberately evil things for fun, going to places soaked in wyrm like waste processing plants or nuclear reactors, these are all good reasons for taint but even then it should be easily cleansed. I think they made it cheap and didn't even make cleansing worth renown per the books because falling to the wyrm should be your personal choice